As Jewish students return to university campuses for the fall after a tumultuous prior academic year, NAJC chaplains will be among those on campus to offer support and guidance to students navigating uncertain times. Rabbi Katja Vehlow of Fordham University, Chaplain Hagar Ben-Eliezer of UC Berkeley, and Rabbi Drew Kaplan of University of Cincinnati reflect on last year’s post-October 7 challenges and their hopes for this year.
Chaplain Hagar Ben-Eliezer, BCC, is a Chaplain and Wellness Therapist for Hillel at UC Berkeley. She previously worked in pediatric chaplaincy at both UCSF and Stanford hospitals. She teaches medical school students on Trauma Informed Care, Somatic Healing and has created workshops in veterinarian chaplaincy she leads for staff at animal hospitals. In the summer of 2024 Hagar served as the Hillel Birthright International Grief and Trauma Specialist in Israel. Chaplain Hagar is active in NAJC and serves on the board as well as co-chairs the conference committee and leads the fundraising committee. She is also a mentor to chaplains preparing for their certification.
Rabbi Drew Kaplan currently serves as the campus rabbi for Cincinnati Hillel. Before that, he served as the rabbi and director working on behalf of institutions addressing the needs of young people such as the Jewish Student Services and Jewish Young Adult Enrichment as well as Long Beach Hillel, all in Southern California. He also served our most vulnerable population throughout the pandemic, when he was the rabbi/director of pastoral care for Cedar Village in Ohia. Rabbi Drew is a prolific content creator and has a special interest in the history of Jewish drinking that he discusses on the Jewish Drinking Show Podcast.
Edward Bernstein: Shalom and welcome to NeshamaCast, exploring Jewish spiritual care thoday, brought to you by Neshamah, the National Association of Jewish Chaplains. I'm your host, Rabbi Ed Bernstein. Welcome to the second season of NeshamaCast. Over the course of the 1st season we met a diverse group of professional chaplains who are members of Neshamah association of Jewish chaplains, and serve in a wide variety of professional settings. Check out our feed to access all prior episodes. In this new season of NeshamaCast, we will continue to meet members of NAJC who provide Jewish spiritual care in a variety of environments, while many NAJC members serve in institutions devoted to physical and mental health, Our members serve in other contexts as well to provide needed spiritual support. As we record in August a new school year is about to begin. So today's program will feature NAJC members who provide chaplaincy on university campuses since the terror attacks in Israel on October 7th and the war that ensued. American university campuses have been fraught with tension over the Middle East conflict and Jewish students have turned to chaplains on campus for support and guidance. NeshamaCast contributor, Rabbi Katja Vehlow is herself a university campus chaplain, and she will moderate the conversation with our additional guests. So let me turn it over now to Rabbi Katja Vehlow to guide us through the rest of the program.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): Thank you, Ed, and yes, I'm particularly grateful for today's conversation with our guests here, because I recently started working as a Jewish chaplai at Fordham University in New York City. And we're recording this episode on the eve of Tisha Ba'AV, the 9th of AV. And it just felt particularly poignant to me today, and maybe we'll come back to that later. The last year has been extraordinarily complex and stressful for the Jewish community as a whole and perhaps even more so for Jewish chaplains working on campuses across the United States. First, of course, there was the shock of October 7th itself, the gutting horrors of the day, the worrying about friends and loved ones, the vigils and prayers.
And this was followed by the war in Gaza and the wider conflict that's widening out now from Lebanon. Now also Yemen and Iran, maybe, and then campus protests broke out on so many, but no means. All campuses and reactions ranged from Lecture series on Israel, Palestine, from teachings, peaceful dissent to angry anti-pro or pro-Israel demonstrations from prayers for the hostages and activism on behalf of Gazans. There were bloody clashes with the police damaged buildings, all of this amplified by social media and TV screens. There's been a rise of anti-semitism and bias incidents with varying levels of tensions among different campuses. And there's also been a rise in Islamophobia and anti-Arab violence as in wider society. The Jewish community on our campuses is often divided.
Some are leaning into support of Israel's war efforts as an opposition. Many find themselves somewhere in between. Many Jewish students have turned to Hillel as a space of refuge and comfort and support. Others, shocked into activism by the images of suffering and death coming out of Gaza, felt that their place was with the victims of the Israeli military. and today many of our students and their parents, but also staff and faculty, feel hurt, angry, and scared. Many express a new sense of unease and discomfort.
So when we talk about Israel and Gaza on campuses, there were and are, so many issues at play, and as chaplains, we navigate not only our own feelings on these subjects bt also what our students, faculty, and staff do r do not need at any given moment. Now in August, we ready ourselves to return to campus
for a new academic year, what can we learn from the past year? How can we best serve our communities. What does it mean to be a campus chaplain today? We're proud to bring you today campus chaplains, Hagal Ben Eliezer and Rabbi Drew Kaplan. Let me please briefly introduce our guests.
Chaplain Hagar ben Eliezer is a chaplain and wellness therapist for Hillel at UC Berkeley. This summer, Hagar served as the Hillel birthright, international grief and trauma specialist in Israel. Chaplain Hagar is active in NAJC, and serves on the board as well as co-chairs, the Conference Committee, and leads the Fundraising Committee. She's also a mentor to chaplains preparing for certification.
Rabbi Drew Kaplan currently serves as the Campus Rabbi for Cincinnati Hill. Before that he served as a Rabbi and director working on behalf of institutions addressing the needs of young people such as Jewi,sh student services and Jewish young adult enrichment, as well as Long Beach Hill, all in Southern California. He also served our most vulnerable populations through the pandemic when he was the rabbi and director of pastoral care for Cedar Village in Ohio. Rabbi Drew is a prolific content Creator, and has a special interest in the history of Jewish drinking, including a podcast, he is the chair of social media.
Chaplain Hagar and Rabbi Drew, welcome to NeshamaCast.
Drew Kaplan: Thank you.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: Thank you.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her):Before we delve into our conversation. I would like to ask both of you to talk briefly about your spiritual and religious backstory. What was your spiritual life like growing up? What was the path that led you to the Rabbinate, or into chaplaincy and campus work in particular? Chaplain Hagar, would you like to get us started.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: Sure I love that question. I always think it's interesting to ask chaplains where they came from, and how they got to where they are so. You know I grew up in a really unique family in that my father was born in Baghdad and immigrated to Israel, and was one of the folks who helped Israel become a State. I grew up on the stories of Zionism. I always say, my mom. She converted to orthodox. We were at Chabad until I was about 8. My dad took over a Sephardic shoal. He's a rabbi so I grew up in this like really kind of scheduled Judaism, like we had our Friday night or Saturday at Hebrew school, days a week at Hebrew school Hebrew day school, and I thought everyone lived that way. But I didn't realize till I was older than my parents had created this beautiful bubble, and so it made sense for me to really go into working in the Jewish community and the Jewish world, and having worked in synagogues for about 15 years, years I would. You know it's very expected in my family to become a rabbi. My dad was a rabbi, my grandfather, my great grandfather, and everyone's like, well, that's naturally what you're gonna do. I remember working in synagogues looking up at the pulpit going there's just, they're just not close enough.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: just not close enough to the people, and I knew I wanted to do something that was next to people, not above them or below them. And I did my own research. I was looking at spiritual direction, and then I learned about chaplaincy, and I I sat with it for about 2 years, and then said, Yeah, this is the thing I want to do. I'd become a therapist. I was working for a Jewish domestic violence agency supporting clients through that. And then I started my chaplaincy, and lo and behold! The pandemic came, and so chaplaincy in the hospital during that time was a really unique and hard and beautiful experience. And I really, just I think from the moment I started talking, say I felt like I was in my right place. I was exactly where I was supposed to be, and that I was hearing my spiritual connection and my connection to God so much clearer when I was doing the work of chaplaincy. And so, yeah, after some years of hardship in the hospital, working during Covid working in an icu Covid unit, I kind of burnt out and said, I want to do something out of the hospital, and a friend of mine had told me about the job on the university campus. I've been a professor for years in my past life, and I thought, Oh, I know college kids. This will be fun. So and that's how I landed where I am. I've been in my job for years now.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): Thank you. I'm also struck by parallels because I also sort of fell into this job. I was also a professor and I applied for this job when it came up here. Rabbi drew how about you? Can you talk about your spiritual life growing up, and your path to the Rabbinate and chaplaincy and campus work?
Drew Kaplan: Yeah, I'm not really sure what to say about the spirituality piece of it. But my, I would say, Jewish connection for me. And so growing up. We did some stuff Jewishly. We just weren't like super religious. We definitely went to, I don't know. You know, synagogue a few times a year did some holiday stuff for me. Really. What engaged me further was when I was in high school, involved with BBYO, leadership wise there? And there was this one question that really hit me, which was, Would you rather be leaders who are Jews or Jewish leaders? And so for me. I really wanted to see how I could be. What does it mean to live Jewishly? How do I live Jewishly? And so that really started me on that trajectory and that path of seeking how to live Jewishly. And then for me, I also gained a lot out of. I found it very ameliorative for my life to engage to, to really embrace my heritage, my identity as living Jewishly. And I wanted to, maybe in college, but definitely, by the time I got to Rabbinical School, really wanted to help others, just as it helped me by embracing my identity, embracing my heritage, living Jewishly. I wanted to also help share that with other people as well. So I previously spent as you shared in my bio over a half decade, and a half plus years working with young adults, college students in Southern California. And there it was. It was really great. Yes, I did during the pandemic. I also did my time in healthcare facility, working with seniors. Really the most vulnerable population did that for a third of a decade, really almost the entirety of the pandemic serving them and then I landed where I am presently, although I started here October second of all times. So I'm I'm back to to working with young people again, really helping them seek to connect to to our heritage.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (She/her) Thank you. I have so many questions about your experiences. From your work, and especially last year. How would you characterize Jewish life? And I guess that's maybe more a question for you. Chaplain Hagar. How would you characterize Jewish life on campus before October 7. And what was it like post October 7th. And how did you support your your students? What was that like for you?
Yeah, that's a great question. The before and the after you know, I work on a very interesting campus. It's extremely volatile, and there's always something going on, and there's always a push and a shove happening on different sides. So you know , I like to tell people I I grew up in this beautiful bubble, and never really had anti-semitism reach me, at least not directly in my face until I started working in this job. And so that's kind of interesting for me that I call that out in some sense. But I would say that you know Hillel's done this incredible job of putting these like wellness therapist positions on many, many of the campuses. And so they were so valuable during covid, because students were not able to get into the mental health facilities as quickly as they wanted. So the Jewish community said, Well, we can solve that. We'll create this position. And so that was kind of normalizing this idea of reaching out for mental health, and also from a Jewish context. You know, the majority of students who were seeing me. Oh, I feel comfortable talking to you because you're Jewish and you get it. Can I talk about like my spirituality? And I'm thinking about converting. I've been coming to Hillel for a while. Or conversations around like I don't feel connected Jewishly right. Now, let's talk about that. So the topics were that, and they were also the I broke up with my partner, and I'm really like having some depression, and I'm struggling with this. So you had your variety of of pretty much age, appropriate things that were coming up, and I would say that most I would say % of the students who came to me were actively involved in Hillel.
The way we've always set it up is if you can find me, you can see me. So if sometimes I would see a roommate of somebody who maybe wasn't Jewish, we don't turn anyone away, s I wouldn't say that I've been at Cal when there hasn't been stuff going on. We had a whole year of 22/23 of things happening at the law school. I won't go into all the details but we had a lot of demonstrations and trucks driving by with Hitler on them, and things that were always kind of happening that kept us on our toes.
I think that 1st year I started receiving hate email, too, and pretty much anyone who had a Hillel address. But that was the first for me. So I was like, Wow, this is intense. And I was really like, Oh, my gosh! I need to process this, and then and then we had October, and, like my processing like, was nothing compared to what we were experiencing. I, my clientele, was tripled after October 7th and I think what was most interesting was, I had an infusion of about 18, 19 clients who were Israeli, who had just finished idf and came to do university welcome, and they and it was complete and utter triage. In those 1st few weeks was saying Kaddish. It was calling their family with me in the room to help them and support them. It was doing therapy in Hebrew just things that we hadn't really I hadn't called on it in in my bag of tricks as of yet, and was coming up as a necessity, and every single person coming in my office, scared, scared, confused, unsure. Should I go home? Should I stay? I'm calling you from home. I left campus. I'm scared. So those were, you know, some of the big changes we were seeing was just this active fear that was taking place, and how to help them hold that I think the other factor that was coming in also was an immense increase in parents reaching out to me, going. My my young adult is calling me and crying for 2 hours on the phone, and I don't know what to say. And so I started doing a series of workshops with International Hillel on on how to support parents. I created some material to help parents kind of like answer, or also acknowledge that we don't have answers, and sometimes just sitting and letting your loved one cry with you is the best we can do. And acknowledging like this is new for me, too. I'm scared, too. so just some examples.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): Thank you. Now, thank you. Rabbi Drew. Could you talk a little bit about what this year was like for you and your campus.
Drew Kaplan: Sure. So I I shared previously. I started October second. So I only had basically the week of Sukkot to get a vague feel of sort of pre. October th campus life. That st month obviously, was not a normal st month on the job. But there I was. I would say, like those st couple of months before we went into winter break, were it? Everybody was in shock, and I think what made it worse is, we have an Israeli fellow, shlichah. Ha! And she just happened to be visiting her family for the holidays, and so she was expected to come back after the holidays, but it just kept going and going. She lost a cousin on October 7th and so she had to. She happened to be in Israel, so she attended the funeral, and so she was gone. We were all worried about her and her family a lot of like. At first nobody really knew what to do. We still had Shabbat dinners, but slowly but surely, throughout the rest of the semester, even just like Shabbat dinner attendance dwindled. I mean, there was just like this, real, not necessarily fear, although maybe that was on the minds of some students, but definitely just like they didn't really know what to do. Thank God, we had winter break, and there was like a reset button that was hit during winter break, and students felt.
I just, I guess, having that restful time was a little enabled them to reset and return. And we'll see what this this year entails, I would say, though I mean it definitely came across, shocking, not as politically active as a campus as Berkeley, but even just the student government passing these anti-Israel resolutions the SJP. But I would say, aside from these more headline Grabbing news pieces, I think that I would say the thing that really characterized that affected the Jewish students the most that I saw was the dissolving of friendships, and whether of close friendships. I remember one student saying she just threw a surprise birthday party like maybe a month or before, and had didn't want to speak with her after October 7th And some of these friendships really close relationships dissolved, not necessarily because of arguing over political positions or talking about Israel. Necessarily, it was just simply that they are Jewish or simply pro-Israel, and that was enough to destroy those relationships.
And it was really hard for the Jewish students, because this is already, I mean, I think we all lived through this in October, November. It was a really tough time going through the feeling of it, and then to not have the support of people we thought, or the students who people they thought were their friends, and now they don't even want to hear from them. They don't want to talk to them was really shocking and jarring. And so those really really disrupted things, and even not close relationships, even just in other different. Let's I'll use one instance like engineering. So one girl who was involved with engineering somehow, maybe she talked about Israel at some point, and this other girl she had talked with a lot. So don't talk to me again. Don't! Don't start up a conversation. So a lot of these things transpired, didn't grab any headlines, but really ruptured a lot of friendships. And a lot of students didn't. A lot of Jewish students didn't know who they could talk to about these things, and so there were. I know that there are other campuses. I'm speaking with other Hillel professionals that they really did seek out Hillel as a refuge after We didn't necessarily see that so much, but we definitely saw instances here and there of pockets of Jewish students who definitely felt they didn't have to explain anything when they come to Hillel, like they get them. They're also Jewish, so we'll see what happens for this new school year.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I began my position on May first, which was the one day my university had an encampment, and literally the 1st act on my new job was that I went with a team from Campus Ministry. I'm located in campus ministry. I walked into the encampment and I spoke to the student, and I introduced myself as the new campus Rabbi and and it was fine, you know. Students maybe, were not thrilled to see me, but they were polite, and they listened and they nodded, and I spent about h there and I left. And I felt, okay, this is a way I can deal with protest. You know you can. You can protest, you can disagree, and you can still talk in some sense,
Of course I'm very lucky because I I did not go through everything. You all went through what have been some of the positive or maybe more challenging experiences you may have made as you advocated, for the Jewish community within the wider university communities say anything that sticks out for you.
Rabbi Drew: So this is not a huge story, but it's an instance. Prior to there had been this joint LGTBQ Center event for a rainbow hollow bake in November, and they were excited about it and promoted materials about it, and then, after they stopped promoting it. and then, as it turned out, when the event actually came around, they had a staff member show up, but none of the students. They adamantly refused to come to Hillel because we are pro-Israel. So it was just fascinating to hear of various groups of students, or even just university centers just saying, turning their backs on. Hello! Any potential partnerships that we had been working on. They just said, We don't want to have anything to do with this, because Hello supports Israel.
So we'll see how these begin to mend. But that was pretty shocking. And painful, maybe, as well.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: Yeah, I we have had a lot of that, I I think what I think was most shocking to me was the doubling down the like. Not just. I don't agree with you, but I don't agree with you, and I want you to hurt somehow, so that for me, like there's nothing I had ever seen so intense by people like, why don't you just talk to me or talk to this other student and hear each other st before you throw the st punch. The violence was really triggering and hard for many students, and for me.
I have a Hillel sticker on my car. All my windows were broken. With a rock that had a swastika on it thrown through the window. That was uncomfortable. you know, calling work and going. Do you have a terrorism line in the budget to repair this? Do you know we joke about it? But it was, it's really frightening that people went to violence so quickly. We would try and have Israeli speakers on campus, and they'd have to be moved constantly, and min before you would be, you would be allowed to find out where the speaker would be. We had an incident in February where protesters came and blocked everyone from entering. and they tried to break down the doors, and people were holding the doors, and the speaker had to be escorted out of the building underground through a tunnel. And just, you know students, Jewish students ended up in the hospital. And so that kind of stuff is really hard to make sense of and to, I think a lot of students who were sitting with me were like, how can I feel compassion when they're hurting us and that is a hard question to answer. With protesters nonstop trying to block access to campus, just using their bodies to make it difficult. And we would come at it from every angle like, okay, this is a violation of disability rights. You have to move this way, you know. And students just were like, it's too hard. I don't even want to walk on campus. It feels scary.
So there were these kind of things that you, know. there's so many aspects of the college life I don't think people talk about like how many students are homeless. I started a a closet at Hillel, where things are placed, and kids can come and take whatever they need. And I think that this last year, too, and Drew touched on it this the amount of people that like I can't go back to my apartment. They have just said that if I talk about being Jewish or anything about Israel, they're gonna like. throw all my things out. So there are a lot of like instant, homeless people who were really trying to figure out where to go. And so much of this is is just so painful. As healers, we want to make sense of it and give people's tools to manage it. But when you're sitting there with your mouth open, going, what is happening, it's difficult. And so I you know I think that was some of the challenges. And I think we like to say, going into this fall semester like, oh, well, it's gonna be different. You know, the elections really gonna take focus. But our encampments were almost immediately, and they were pretty volatile throughout the entire time, and when students tried to approach and talk it often became violent. So we'll see where we go from here.
Katja Vehlow (she/her) Yeah, this this really addresses one of the questions I had here as well. Chaplaincy can be such a gift in conflict. You know, we. We're trained to see all the emotions and to hold them including the suffering. And we hope we hope that this will help bring about some healing, and we know it's hard. But of course, as you noted, this perspective is is so difficult and and not widely held, maybe impossible.
And at the same time. If we cannot hear each other's narratives, if we cannot see each other's emotions, we cannot move forward really. And yet many of us, for so many reasons we focus on our own suffering. So in this situation, what does it mean for you to be a Jewish chaplain, and has your chaplaincy changed? And if so, how.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: I would say I I would say that. How's my chaplaincy? I mean my inclination to be a healer and to help is still there. My own personal. I have to do a lot more work on managing my own personal nervous system. And I want to be really honest about managing my own biases and what that feels like to. You know, I've had people in my position on other campuses. Say, Oh, I have students who come in and just wanna bad mouth Israel, the whole session and I get really triggered. I'm like, I haven't necessarily had that I it could very well happen, but for now most of the people I'm seeing you know, for lack of a better, more in line with my thinking, and so I'm Israeli. So it's personal. I had a friend who was held hostage, and I had two friends who died at Nova, so it's very personal. And to have students come in and talk to me about it like I really resonate on such a deep level with this scenario of post 10/7. I think that my chaplaincy has become more vulnerable in some ways, like I have to do a much more diligent job of taking care of myself, because I get drained much faster, and I get sad.
And so I need a lot more recovery time than I used to. And that's okay. And I just acknowledge it and and make sure that I can bring my nervous system back down after I have these interactions. And even just walking on campus is triggering. So I think, acknowledging that and taking care of that is something that's been forefront for me.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): Maybe a little more about what you spoke about and it's a question for both of you really, but what you addressed right now, Chaplain Hagar, at a time when so much is asked of campus chaplains, how do you take care of your own neshamah, your soul, you spoke about bringing down your nervous system but you know there's so much. How do you take care of your own souls? How do you find the strength and the hope to continue with work when it's very difficult.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: I think that part of that thing I talked about before, like resonating with the experience of what some of these students are going through, you know, you know, especially in the beginning, when they were like, I stay up all night and talk to family in Israel, because that's when they're awake, and that's what I can do. And and I'm like, Oh, my gosh! I'm reading stories to my cousins on the phone in the middle of the night to try and help them, as they're in their safe room, you know. So there was a lot of this connection, the soul connection of like.
I really resonate with what you're talking about, and I think that was healing for me to be able to not be alone in that and to be able to be meeting people who really got what I was feeling in that moment, because that, I think, was so missing for so many people like. Do you understand how I'm feeling like? Do you really understand? And I heard from so many students that, like, you know, being able to speak in Hebrew, or being able to talk it about Israel freely, or Judaism was really healing for them, and I think it was super healing for me as well, so I think in a weird way, doing my job was one of the ways I was taking care of myself. But, You know, I think I slept through winter break. I think I literally went to bed and woke up two months later. So and that was okay, giving myself permission to just be tired and to be exhausted, and to take care of myself is super super important lots of pajama days, lots of pajama days.
Rabbi Katja (she/her): How about you, Rabbi Drew?
Rabbi Drew: I know this sounds very rabbinic, but just even connecting with, like my synagogue community just feeling that sense of
I don't know Jewish solidarity, not feeling. I don't know whether it's the need to not needing to explain or not needing to feel under potential attack, just feeling that sense of safety and security, I think, was helpful in a general sense, for me. on a broader sense, one of the things that I think was also energizing is down as October, as sort of like down, I would say, like shell shocked. We were in October and November, not only on our in our own selves, but facing just the diminished numbers which, like you know, it was my 1st month or on the job, and just seeing dwindling attendance at events, Shabbat dinners, etc, was. It was really kind of down. But I'll give a shout out one of the speakers at the Hillel Staff Conference in December, said Judaism, like what we do is not just, you know, to be here a safety and shield from antisemitism, but really to lead with joy. And so I don't think any of us chose the Rabbinate, or serving Jewish as Jewish chaplains to serve the Jewish people just to protect everybody from anti Semitism. I think we're really here because there is a reason not just running away from something, but really trying to run toward and provide that sense of joy and some sense of well, we're actually really here for something.
I'll say, in a broader sense, even just coming together. After months of this at the very beginning of December, with other Hillel staff, there was no campus that was untouched by anti Semitism, and to come together, and I'm pretty sure there was like a collective sigh of relief, of just being in a safe space with hundreds of other Hillel staff members to come together, not just to commiserate, but even just to be like just let out a collective sigh, regroup and you know we were not in pajamas, as regard was mentioning, but I I think to some degree there's a sense of there was a good December was really good to reset so, or winter more broadly, so, that was definitely helpful, especially moving on into the spring semester.
Katja Vehlow (she/her): I hear a lot of sort of focusing on Jewish identity or on aspects of Jewish identity that give each of you hope. And I wanted to bring in another aspect. In June I co-taught a week long seminar of future faith leaders at Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies in Baltimore and we, of course, hesitated. If this was a good time to have this, you know, a lot of a lot of participants didn't want to come. We were really nervous about it, but in the end we said that you know this. This was the time to have the seminar. So we did. and there was a moment when we had a Israel Palestine conversation and we set it up in a way that people submitted questions. They had anonymously, and we put them up on the wall. and people had a little min cube, and whoever wanted to answer a question could get up and could respond, and then somebody else could get up. and it was a way to bring up opinions and emotions that were in the room of it. It was very hard. It was really really hard and you know there were tears.
And then something really interesting happened. A day later students brought up other difficult conversations so topics that always come up in these contexts talking about the divinity of Jesus? Or why don't Jesus? Why don't Jews believe in Jesus? Or how about the Trinity? But usually it's faculty who bring them up. And this time it was students. So when a student said, Oh. why don't you Jews believe in Jesus. And one of the Jewish students said: You know, when you say this, this is what I hear, and this is what comes up for me. and it happened a few times. And I kept thinking about why that was. And I think it was because we'd had this really difficult conversation that obviously didn't solve anything but that opened our hearts a little bit in a very small protected environment.
But ever since I've thought about how and if it is possible to harness this experience of having a difficult conversation in a very protected environment But if it's possible to have this at universities as well, I don't know. I listen to your experiences, Chaplain Hagar. It may not be possible right now. There. but I also feel that in the end they have to happen, these conversations. And I wonder what your ideas are.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: I love that question and I think you know it's funny, I was saying to someone the other day about. I've been angry for so long and now I feel like there's some of the app like either exhaustion or it's out of my system a little bit, and I'm ready to like. Bring in some more tools for myself. I'm actually going to be part of a fellowship cohort at the EYE center in doing conflicts of interest, learning to speak about Israeli Palestinian topics. And I think it's going to be really good for me to do that. I think also, in my work with International Hillel, I was invited to go to Israel this summer, and really kind of focus on supporting students who were brave enough to go. We normally have 1,800 students, this year we had 350. I think we had and really acknowledging their bravery for going and participating with a agenda that was changing daily, going to Nova, going to Hostage Square, getting to do these things, and also having the job of being able to create curriculum and ideas around how to process this. And what are we looking at? And how are we supporting students? We learned a lot about that. One of the things I think that was the biggest takeaway was. We were focused on the students. There was so much Israeli staff that really needed to process with me and tell me things.
I remember I got there within hours. One of the guides had taken me aside and said: I want you to know that I had tickets to Nova and we couldn't find anyone to watch the dog, and so we didn't go. But all my friends called me when it was going on. And I don't sleep anymore. And we did some really amazing work together that week to move through or to support tools in that area. I think that it was for me a great experience to have the conversation about. How are we holding both sides here? And what does this look like, and what you know? It's funny, because when I was in Israel I was like, Oh, this is the safest I've ever felt. It feels so good. I feel like my nervous system is completely calmed down. And that was just about being amongst people. You didn't have to explain your Judaism, or who you were, or why you were there. Which was a really nice respite for me at that point. But yeah, like you said definitely, I believe that these conversations need to start happening in a way that is mindful and respectful. When is that time going to happen for our campus, you know. I think it's happening slowly. In some places we have an amazing rabbi at Hillel who is trying to host just smaller groups of people talking, and that's taking us in the right direction.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): How about you, Rabbi Drew?
Rabbi Drew: It's a public university. But it's not that politically active. And I know there are students who specifically chose to come here rather if they like. There was one Cleveland student who said, I could have gone to Iowa state. That's a much more politically active campus. To be be honest, I really haven't had much broader interaction. The only literally the only time was there was some. There was one event where normally the Interfaith center takes part in. So I was there, and I happened to meet some peoples who were who were doing some chaplaincy ministry work. But really the Hillel director is the one our executive director really interfaces with the administration. Not me.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): I am struck by these different structures. You know I am in campus ministry. I am paid by the University, and I am very much part of the University, so I am meeting every Dean under the sun. When I walked into the encampment my first day I didn't notice this, but there was the entire sort of senior leadership of the university around. They all saw me. And they all think I walk on water. And I, I said, You know I this is what you're hiring me for. I said you hired a chaplain, you know, and I said I wasn't afraid for my life. I mean, my colleagues went in there. They knew the students.
Since the end of the semester, The war in Gaza has, of course, continued, and then fighting in the North and elsewhere, have escalated. There's no clear end in sight. Some students at some universities have already announced a hot fall and a continuation of protests and encampments. What would you tell yourself and your campus community, many of whom are wary and exhausted, maybe still are as they get ready for the upcoming academic year?
Drew Kaplan: So I really think, I'm really hopeful that just as the winner was a nice reset summer as well. It's I also know that this is not going to be a surprise, whereas October, November was a massive surprise I mean literally for everybody, but definitely for the Jewish students on campuses. This is something that I think students are well aware of, that they're coming into even freshmen that have never experience campus. And I almost wonder if they're what they're reading about, what types of content they're consuming as they prepare to enter a college and college campus for the 1st time. so I don't think this will blindside anybody. I also don't know really what to expect. If there's going to be like you mentioned the protests. I will say one thing, which is the encampments. We were very lucky, partially because we're not that politically active of a campus at University of Cincinnati, but also
finals fit. The final day of finals was April 26th so that was like classes had finished before the encampments, really, you know, took like wildfire across the campus the country, so we're thank God, very lucky in that account. But who knows if they'll set up shop here for the fall? We really don't know. I'm not good at telling the future, but I'm also hopeful that it won't be terribly well. It won't be terrible, and won't be terribly surprising. Whatever does come our way.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): Thank you. I must say, when I think of encampments on my campus, I think that the encampment itself is not the problem. The problem is the kind of discourse that we're having and how it is expressed. And that's what I would like to see shift. Yes, Chaplain Hagar, what what would you tell your community or yourself?
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: Well, I know that I've had a really long conversation with myself this summer about what the majority of us as healers gave last year is not gonna work this year, like I can't personally put that much of my self into everything the way I did, or there won't be much of me left, so I know that I have to be really aware of how I'm caring for myself, how I'm caring for others. And and honestly, what I'm capable of, and be okay with that. So that's part of my learning. I would say, you know that I think at Cal, let's always be prepared. You know, it's it's there's gonna be something there's, you know, there's always something to be angry about which is really it's beautiful that these young adults want to express themselves, you know, ideally. It'd be great if we could do it in a format that is not violent or angry. But I think that we're definitely going to see stuff happening. I think the election is going to push the agenda. I personally think about October 7th the date being an issue. You know, it's hard to imagine what is. But I'm i pretty darn sure there's gonna be some things going on and you know, I always get surprised at how like, Wow. okay, I knew something was coming, but I didn't think it was going to be that. So I give a lot of props for creativity sometimes. But you know, I think it's about just expecting the unexpected. And one of the things I'm doing this week is I'm working with our Hillel staff to do some role play around, how to talk about these difficult topics, how to bring them up, how to put boundaries around them, and how to help staff interact with students who are struggling. So yeah, wish us all luck.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): We will. We are nearing the end of our time here at Neshamarcast, but before we close, is there anything you would like to add .
Drew Kaplan: Sure. So this is again, this is a very local situation, I'll say 2 things regarding the administration, which is the first of which is the really lovely thing. Very surprising is that st Friday following October th the president of the University came to the HIllel and addressed and wanted to hear from the students, which was really lovely. The other thing is, we got invited to be part of the Campus climate initiative which I'm very glad that that the Administration is working on this and is on, is trying to process it, trying to figure it out. At the same time, there's also there's only so much they can do in a public university as far as free speech and other such situations. So there are definitely positive signs. I'm definitely trying to. I'm looking at this with optimistic classes on.
So we'll see what what the the New Year brings. I'm gonna throw in one other thing that somehow did not come up, which was social media. So I will say this, a lot of our students read. I mean I I read social media, too, but a lot of their friends, they would look at Instagram stories or posts, but a lot of stories and some of that also frayed some of their social interactions as well. I can't believe my friend would post such and such, or and sometimes it was even in, if they were in a sorority, and they couldn't believe their fellow sorority sister was posting such things. So that was another way that really just sort of frayed the social connections here on campus.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: Yeah, I echo what Drew says. You know there are some avenues that are positive. We have a coalition against anti Semitism on campus now. We have a new dean. We have some new things happening that hopefully, you know, I I do feel the Administration learned a lot from last year, and there's a lot of things that people want to do differently. And I I feel hopeful about that and I feel hopeful that you know Hillel is going to continue to be this safe place to come and have time with other students who want to feel some Neshamas and spirit in this. So yeah, I think that is what I'm I really want to enter this with focusing on the positive.
Rabbi Katja Vehlow (she/her): Yeah. On my campus. I was hired at the same time as an imam was hired, and I think the of us have a tremendous advantage that we both started sort of a year in. There are a lot of opportunities here that we plan to take advantage of. You know, a lot of collaboration that we hope to have a lot of modeling we hope to have on conversations
where we may not agree, but we can still have conversations. A lot of I hopefully shared celebrations and all that, and we'll see what happens. So I'm also hopeful on my for myself, for my campus. And I listen to what people tell me around me. I listen to other anxieties and their fears, and I try to hold them and to say, We're we're here. It's okay.
Chaplain Hagar, Rabbi Drew. I want to thank both of you for joining us on the show. Your service is a blessing to all of us, and especially, of course, to our students and their families. I pray that you will be blessed with good health and strength as you return to campus to continue your sacred work. Thank you.
Rabbi Drew Kaplan: Thank you.
Hagar Ben-Eliezer: Thank you so much.
Rabbi Edward Bernstein: NeshamaCast is a production of Neshama, the Association of Jewish Chaplains. Thank you to our guests, chaplain Hagar Ben-Eliezer and Rabbi Drew Kaplan, and NeshamaCast contributor Rabbi Katja Vehlow. Check out our show notes for more on all three participants. And please consider making a contribution to support NeshamaCast and all the vital work Neshama does to support Jewish spiritual work. Just click on the link. And thank you to Rabbi Katja Vehlow for technical support and production assistance. Additional support to Allison Attenborough. Transcriptions for this and other episodes of Neshamacast are available online and are typically posted one week after our episode first airs. Our theme music is "ki anu amecha" written and performed by RebCantor Amy Levine. Please help others find the show by rating and reviewing the show on Applepodcast. We welcome comments and suggestions for future programming on neshamacast.com and please make sure to follow ANJS on Facebook to lkearn more about Jewish spiritual care in our communities. May we all work together to heal our world.